Discussion:
[linux-elitists] Nadav Har'El about Non-FOSS Android Apps
Shlomi Fish
2014-01-14 11:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

below you can find a translation I made (from Hebrew to English) of part of a
mailing list post by Nadav Har'El ( http://nadav.harel.org.il/ ) which I
believe you may find interesting:

<QUOTE>

But what did not succeed was to make the customers request free
[as-in-speech] software when they (and not the creator of the operating system
or the device) choose a program themselves. For instance, only a small part of
the Android applications today are free software, and the customers are
“content” with a gratis and non-free software program.

I think the reason for this is prosaic — the belief that one can make money
easily from non-free software on Android. That if you will only write an
application and turn on the bit of “show ads”, then suddenly you will make
millions (or at least thousands…) from advertising. What happens eventually is
that there are 17 “headlight” (for example) applications in the app stor, all
showing ads, and each one is used by 17 people and the developer earns a few
cents in the good case. This is instead of one headlight application, as free
software, which is better than all of them (see
http://code.google.com/p/search-light/ for instance). But everyone except the
users — Google and the authors of the software — have an interest to push the
non-free program to the user.

In the early 1990s there was a similar phenomenon in the PC world - the
“shareware”. Then it involved a program that you could get (without the source
code!) free-of-charge, but if you wanted to use it beyond a given time (for
example a week), or enable features that were limited in the gratis version,
you were supposed to pay for it. As far as I know, the whole system was a
complete failure — most of the developers did not earn substantial amounts of
money, and most of the users ignored the limited features, or cracked them.
Nevertheless, during almost two decades, thousands of programmers wasted their
time to write such non-free software. Most of the gratis software for the PC
back then was shareware - not open source. Today, nothing has remained from all
this work. However, a large part of the free software that has been written
back then, is still in use today.

If only there was a way to explain to the authors of the mobile
applications that no, most of them will not get rich from the applications,
like most of the authors of shareware did not, and it’s just better to write
free software…

</QUOTE>

Original post is here:

http://hamakor.org.il/pipermail/discussions/2013-September/005026.html

Regards,

Shlomi Fish
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Don Marti
2014-01-14 15:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shlomi Fish
below you can find a translation I made (from Hebrew to English) of part of a
mailing list post by Nadav Har'El ( http://nadav.harel.org.il/ ) which I
But what did not succeed was to make the customers request free
[as-in-speech] software when they (and not the creator of the operating system
or the device) choose a program themselves. For instance, only a small part of
the Android applications today are free software, and the customers are
“content” with a gratis and non-free software program.
Image search sites such as Google Image Search and
MSFT Bing make it easy to search Creative
Commons-licensed images only.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/14/google-image-search-creative-commons/

However, there's no license search or filter option
in native app stores AFAIK. You have to use a
third-party directory.
Post by Shlomi Fish
If only there was a way to explain to the authors of the mobile
applications that no, most of them will not get rich from the applications,
like most of the authors of shareware did not, and it’s just better to write
free software…
Just write free software and...?

What's the complement to the Free app that the
author gets paid for? I suppose you could maintain
a high-profile Free app and use that as a demo to
get contract programming work doing branded apps for
marketing projects, but that's a hell of a way to
make a living.
Post by Shlomi Fish
http://hamakor.org.il/pipermail/discussions/2013-September/005026.html
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Shlomi Fish
2014-01-30 14:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi Don,

sorry for the late response.

On Tue, 14 Jan 2014 07:49:27 -0800
Post by Don Marti
Post by Shlomi Fish
below you can find a translation I made (from Hebrew to English) of part of
a mailing list post by Nadav Har'El ( http://nadav.harel.org.il/ ) which I
But what did not succeed was to make the customers request free
[as-in-speech] software when they (and not the creator of the operating
system or the device) choose a program themselves. For instance, only a
small part of the Android applications today are free software, and the
customers are “content” with a gratis and non-free software program.
Image search sites such as Google Image Search and
MSFT Bing make it easy to search Creative
Commons-licensed images only.
http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/14/google-image-search-creative-commons/
However, there's no license search or filter option
in native app stores AFAIK. You have to use a
third-party directory.
That's true.
Post by Don Marti
Post by Shlomi Fish
If only there was a way to explain to the authors of the mobile
applications that no, most of them will not get rich from the applications,
like most of the authors of shareware did not, and it’s just better to write
free software…
Just write free software and...?
What's the complement to the Free app that the
author gets paid for? I suppose you could maintain
a high-profile Free app and use that as a demo to
get contract programming work doing branded apps for
marketing projects, but that's a hell of a way to
make a living.
Well, I think part of Nadav’s point was that you are unlikely to get rich
writing a non-FOSS ad-supported application, and that this way there's a huge
waste of time and resources, and you should just pool your efforts toward
writing one good open source application. Just like people most of the people
who wrote shareware did not get rich from it, and most of the shareware
programs from that era, ended up vanishing into obscurity and disuse.

In this interview -
http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/interviews/adrian-ettlinger.html - which
I conducted with the late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Ettlinger , he
testified that he wrote and sold a shareware program called AniMap, that has
only sold about 4,000 copies in its first 8 years of sales, and yet he told me
it was not enough to compensate for its development costs. And to me it seems
most shareware applications sold far fewer copies than 4,000.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish
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Jason White
2014-01-18 08:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shlomi Fish
If only there was a way to explain to the authors of the mobile
applications that no, most of them will not get rich from the applications,
like most of the authors of shareware did not, and it’s just better to write
free software

Given a choice between (1) downloading my hypothetical software with
advertising enabled from the central repository, and (2) downloading the
source code from my Web site, compiling it and installing it manually, I think
a large proportion of users would opt for the former. The same holds if the
second option were to download from the central repository for a small fee.

Of course, I'm assuming there's a policy on the part of repository maintainers
to exclude near duplicate apps, i.e., preventing anyone from compiling my free
software, modifying it a little (perhaps by turning off the advertising or
just directing the revenue to themselves) and attempting to upload the
modified version.

The hypothesis, for which I don't have empirical support, is that many users
would pay for the convenience of downloading free software from their mobile
operating system's central repository even if, with more effort, they could
acquire it at zero cost elsewhere. I suppose someone could write an app to
reduce the inconvenience of acquiring it for free, especially if there were a
lot of free software distributed in this way. Thus perhaps the proposal
doesn't scale, or maybe users in large numbers would continue to pay the price
anyway, especially if the central repository has security and reliability
advantages compared with installing from other sources.
Shlomi Fish
2014-01-30 14:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jason,

sorry for the late response.

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:25:26 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Jason White
Post by Shlomi Fish
If only there was a way to explain to the authors of the mobile
applications that no, most of them will not get rich from the applications,
like most of the authors of shareware did not, and it’s just better to write
free software…
Given a choice between (1) downloading my hypothetical software with
advertising enabled from the central repository, and (2) downloading the
source code from my Web site, compiling it and installing it manually, I think
a large proportion of users would opt for the former. The same holds if the
second option were to download from the central repository for a small fee.
Well, there is a third option - downloading the package that was built from
source and is provided somewhere. This is just like the fact that a lot of open
source software applications, which are also available for MS Windows, provide
binaries for it on their site, that are built from the source for the
convenience of their users (or alternatively are available as pre-built
packages on the package repositories of Linux distributions such as Debian or
Fedora).
Post by Jason White
Of course, I'm assuming there's a policy on the part of repository maintainers
to exclude near duplicate apps, i.e., preventing anyone from compiling my free
software, modifying it a little (perhaps by turning off the advertising or
just directing the revenue to themselves) and attempting to upload the
modified version.
"Free" in what sense - gratis or libre?
Post by Jason White
The hypothesis, for which I don't have empirical support, is that many users
would pay for the convenience of downloading free software from their mobile
operating system's central repository even if, with more effort, they could
acquire it at zero cost elsewhere. I suppose someone could write an app to
reduce the inconvenience of acquiring it for free, especially if there were a
lot of free software distributed in this way. Thus perhaps the proposal
doesn't scale, or maybe users in large numbers would continue to pay the price
anyway, especially if the central repository has security and reliability
advantages compared with installing from other sources.
I don't think you can guarantee security and reliability for all the apps in
the central repository, but if an application there is popular enough, it may
gain enough good reviews to warrant for trust.

Regards,

Shlomi Fish
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